snippet "Slides in tablature", NR 2.4.1

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snippet "Slides in tablature", NR 2.4.1

Federico Bruni-2
Hi,

I've seen an error in a snippet in NR 2.4.1, Default tablature:
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.13/Documentation/notation/common-notation-for-fretted-strings#default-tablatures 

The section is Slides in tablature.

There are two errors actually:
- last two 5 and 7 frets are printed badly (because of hideNotes, I
suppose)
- in slide into and slide from you shouldn't see the starting or ending
fret, so 0 should be removed

There's already a snippet for slides in tablature in the LSR:
http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=633 

which is not up-to-date, because the whiteout property is missing.
(BTW, who maintain the LSR?)

This should work fine:

hideFretNumber = {
  \once \override TabNoteHead #'transparent = ##t
  \once \override TabNoteHead #'whiteout = ##f
  \once \override NoteHead #'transparent = ##t
  \once \override NoteHead #'no-ledgers = ##t
  \once \override Stem #'transparent = ##t
  \once \override Accidental #'transparent = ##t
  \once \override Glissando #'(bound-details left padding) = #0.3  %%
for slides from/into: it increases the lenght of glissando and make it
more visible
}

slides = {
  c'8\3(\glissando d'8\3)
  c'8\3\glissando d'8\3
  \hideFretNumber
  \grace { g16\3\glissando }
  c'4\3
  \afterGrace d'4\3\glissando {
  \stemDown \hideFretNumber
  g16\3 }
}

\score {
  <<
    \new Staff { \clef "treble_8" \slides }
    \new TabStaff { \slides }
  >>
  \layout {
    \context {
      \Score
      \override Glissando #'minimum-length = #4
      \override Glissando #'springs-and-rods =
                          #ly:spanner::set-spacing-rods
      \override Glissando #'thickness = #2
    }
  }
}



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Re: snippet "Slides in tablature", NR 2.4.1

Federico Bruni-2
Il giorno mer, 13/04/2011 alle 10.05 +0200, Valentin Villenave ha
scritto:
> Hi Federico, hi everybody,
>
> here's a patch for the documentation accordingly to what you proposed.
> I'm not entirely sure it's suitable to introduce a new function (or
> more exactly, I'm wondering if it shouldn't rather be added to
> music-function.ly instead). Not being a guitar player, I can't tell.
>

Some months ago Patrick Schmidt told me that \hideNotes could be changed
in order to hide fret numbers in TabStaff:

http://lilypond-s-support-for-tablatures.3383434.n2.nabble.com/hideNotes-in-tablature-td5851217.html#a5851340 

I really look forward to seeing it implemented, but I don't know if he's
still working on it.

In that thread you can see also the bug I was talking about in this
thread. Here's the open issue:
http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=1459 

Anyway I believe that if you want to hide a note in Staff, you want to
hide the number in TabStaff as well. To me this is the main bug!
I hope that Patrick will jump in and share his opinion on this matter.

> (I've also amended the LSR snippet to add 'whiteout.)

Thanks!



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Re: snippet "Slides in tablature", NR 2.4.1

Patrick Schmidt-3

Am 17.04.2011 um 16:15 schrieb Federico Bruni:

> Il giorno mer, 13/04/2011 alle 10.05 +0200, Valentin Villenave ha
> scritto:
>> Hi Federico, hi everybody,
>>
>> here's a patch for the documentation accordingly to what you proposed.
>> I'm not entirely sure it's suitable to introduce a new function (or
>> more exactly, I'm wondering if it shouldn't rather be added to
>> music-function.ly instead). Not being a guitar player, I can't tell.
>>
>
> Some months ago Patrick Schmidt told me that \hideNotes could be changed
> in order to hide fret numbers in TabStaff:
>
> http://lilypond-s-support-for-tablatures.3383434.n2.nabble.com/hideNotes-in-tablature-td5851217.html#a5851340 
>
> I really look forward to seeing it implemented, but I don't know if he's
> still working on it.
>
> In that thread you can see also the bug I was talking about in this
> thread. Here's the open issue:
> http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=1459 
>
> Anyway I believe that if you want to hide a note in Staff, you want to
> hide the number in TabStaff as well. To me this is the main bug!
> I hope that Patrick will jump in and share his opinion on this matter.
In December 2010 I made a draft that contained the necessary changes. See http://codereview.appspot.com/3590041/diff/11001/ly/property-init.ly
I probably simply forgot to add these changes to the final draft of the patch harmonics and slides (issue 3590041). Feel free to add these two lines to /ly/property-init.ly and make a patch.

Thanks
patrick

>
>> (I've also amended the LSR snippet to add 'whiteout.)
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> lilypond-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel



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Re: snippet "Slides in tablature", NR 2.4.1

Federico Bruni-2
Il giorno dom, 17/04/2011 alle 16.58 +0200, Patrick Schmidt ha scritto:

> > Anyway I believe that if you want to hide a note in Staff, you want
> to
> > hide the number in TabStaff as well. To me this is the main bug!
> > I hope that Patrick will jump in and share his opinion on this
> matter.
> In December 2010 I made a draft that contained the necessary changes.
> See
> http://codereview.appspot.com/3590041/diff/11001/ly/property-init.ly
> I probably simply forgot to add these changes to the final draft of
> the patch harmonics and slides (issue 3590041). Feel free to add these
> two lines to /ly/property-init.ly and make a patch.

Simple! :-)

Last year I found out that I had to set TabNoteHead whiteout property to
false when I make the TabNoteHead transparent:
http://lilypond-s-support-for-tablatures.3383434.n2.nabble.com/Re-tie-bug-in-2-13-10-td4291079.html#a4292853 

I have the suspect that this is no more necessary.
Can you confirm it?

Valentin, the slide snippet can be left as it was.
Can you make the patch for property-init.ly?

Anyway, the bug of \hideNotes in tablature remains:
http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=1459 

Thanks,
Federico



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Re: snippet "Slides in tablature", NR 2.4.1

Patrick Schmidt-3

Am 17.04.2011 um 18:35 schrieb Federico Bruni:

> Il giorno dom, 17/04/2011 alle 16.58 +0200, Patrick Schmidt ha scritto:
>>> Anyway I believe that if you want to hide a note in Staff, you want
>> to
>>> hide the number in TabStaff as well. To me this is the main bug!
>>> I hope that Patrick will jump in and share his opinion on this
>> matter.
>> In December 2010 I made a draft that contained the necessary changes.
>> See
>> http://codereview.appspot.com/3590041/diff/11001/ly/property-init.ly
>> I probably simply forgot to add these changes to the final draft of
>> the patch harmonics and slides (issue 3590041). Feel free to add these
>> two lines to /ly/property-init.ly and make a patch.
>
> Simple! :-)
>
> Last year I found out that I had to set TabNoteHead whiteout property to
> false when I make the TabNoteHead transparent:
> http://lilypond-s-support-for-tablatures.3383434.n2.nabble.com/Re-tie-bug-in-2-13-10-td4291079.html#a4292853 
>
> I have the suspect that this is no more necessary.
> Can you confirm it?
Yes and no: ties are still visible in tab staves when using \hideNotes:
\version "2.13.59"

bug = {
   \hideNotes
   g4\3~g4\3
   \unHideNotes
   c'4\3
}

\new TabStaff { \bug }

 <<
   \new Staff { \bug }
   \new TabStaff { \bug }
 >>

>
> Valentin, the slide snippet can be left as it was.
> Can you make the patch for property-init.ly?
>
> Anyway, the bug of \hideNotes in tablature remains:
> http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=1459 
True!
>
> Thanks,
> Federico
>



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Re: snippet "Slides in tablature", NR 2.4.1

Federico Bruni-2
Il giorno dom, 17/04/2011 alle 21.04 +0200, Patrick Schmidt ha scritto:

> > Last year I found out that I had to set TabNoteHead whiteout
> property to
> > false when I make the TabNoteHead transparent:
> >
> http://lilypond-s-support-for-tablatures.3383434.n2.nabble.com/Re-tie-bug-in-2-13-10-td4291079.html#a4292853 
> >
> > I have the suspect that this is no more necessary.
> > Can you confirm it?
> Yes and no: ties are still visible in tab staves when using
> \hideNotes:

They are visible in Staff (and probably in TabStaff just when using
\tabFullNotation).
This change in ly/property-init.ly would fix it:

hideNotes = {
  .....
  \override Tie #'transparent = ##t
}

unHideNotes = {
  ....
  \revert Tie #'transparent
}

But I guess there's a reason why these lines have not been added (ties
are... mmh, "outside the scope of a note").

However my question was about the whiteout property of TabNoteHead.
IIRC, last year when I made a TabNoteHead transparent I could see a
small white area in place of TabNoteHead, because the whiteout property
of TabNoteHead was set to true by default (my blind guess).
So I had to add \once \override TabNoteHead #'whiteout = ##f  to my
snippet.

Now this happens no more, the override is no more needed. I guess that's
because now the whiteout property is handled differently?

Where can I check it?



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Re: snippet "Slides in tablature", NR 2.4.1

Carl Sorensen
On 4/17/11 2:03 PM, "Federico Bruni" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> However my question was about the whiteout property of TabNoteHead.
> IIRC, last year when I made a TabNoteHead transparent I could see a
> small white area in place of TabNoteHead, because the whiteout property
> of TabNoteHead was set to true by default (my blind guess).
> So I had to add \once \override TabNoteHead #'whiteout = ##f  to my
> snippet.
>
> Now this happens no more, the override is no more needed. I guess that's
> because now the whiteout property is handled differently?
>
 I'm pretty sure that is true.  The TabNoteHead used to be a composite of
multiple stencils that then had whiteout added.  Now the TabNoteHead is a
single stencil, and if the head is transparent, no whiteout is drawn.

HTH,

Carl



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Re: snippet "Slides in tablature", NR 2.4.1

Federico Bruni-2
In reply to this post by Patrick Schmidt-3
Il giorno dom, 17/04/2011 alle 16.58 +0200, Patrick Schmidt ha scritto:
> In December 2010 I made a draft that contained the necessary changes.
> See
> http://codereview.appspot.com/3590041/diff/11001/ly/property-init.ly
> I probably simply forgot to add these changes to the final draft of
> the patch harmonics and slides (issue 3590041). Feel free to add these
> two lines to /ly/property-init.ly and make a patch.

Here's the patch attached.
Can anyone check and push it?

BTW, I've just realized that issue 1459 doesn't happen when using
\tabFullNotation.
Maybe it's a good hint for fixing it?

http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=1459 

0001-hideNotes-should-hide-also-TabNoteHead-in-TabStaff.patch (920 bytes) Download Attachment
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Re: snippet "Slides in tablature", NR 2.4.1

Marc Hohl
In reply to this post by Carl Sorensen
Am 17.04.2011 23:09, schrieb Carl Sorensen:

> On 4/17/11 2:03 PM, "Federico Bruni"<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> However my question was about the whiteout property of TabNoteHead.
>> IIRC, last year when I made a TabNoteHead transparent I could see a
>> small white area in place of TabNoteHead, because the whiteout property
>> of TabNoteHead was set to true by default (my blind guess).
>> So I had to add \once \override TabNoteHead #'whiteout = ##f  to my
>> snippet.
>>
>> Now this happens no more, the override is no more needed. I guess that's
>> because now the whiteout property is handled differently?
>>
>   I'm pretty sure that is true.  The TabNoteHead used to be a composite of
> multiple stencils that then had whiteout added.  Now the TabNoteHead is a
> single stencil, and if the head is transparent, no whiteout is drawn.
I can confirm this - there was a patchfrom me inspired by Neil which couples
transparent and whiteout together - any grob that's transparent doesn't
have a whiteout drawn.

Marc

> HTH,
>
> Carl
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> lilypond-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
>



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Issue 1459 [was: Re: [tablatures] snippet "Slides in tablature", NR 2.4.1]

Marc Hohl
In reply to this post by Federico Bruni-2
Am 18.04.2011 09:11, schrieb Federico Bruni:

> Il giorno dom, 17/04/2011 alle 16.58 +0200, Patrick Schmidt ha scritto:
>> In December 2010 I made a draft that contained the necessary changes.
>> See
>> http://codereview.appspot.com/3590041/diff/11001/ly/property-init.ly
>> I probably simply forgot to add these changes to the final draft of
>> the patch harmonics and slides (issue 3590041). Feel free to add these
>> two lines to /ly/property-init.ly and make a patch.
> Here's the patch attached.
> Can anyone check and push it?
>
> BTW, I've just realized that issue 1459 doesn't happen when using
> \tabFullNotation.
> Maybe it's a good hint for fixing it?
As far as I understand, the main problem with tablature is,
that the "normal" tablature (i.e. numbers only) is just
a compromise:

1) the stems are made invisible and as short as possible,
because even if they are invisible, they occupy space and influence
the slurs (which are still visible). Just setting the stem stencil to ##f
doesn't work, because the flags have then no grob to refer to, so
a couple of errors occur.

2) Even when stems have a length of zero, a small stem is
visible. I think the length is measured from the border of the tab note head
to the end of the stem, whereas the stem seems to begin in the center
of the tab note head.

3) The shortened and invisible stems are kind of an \override in
ly/engraver-init.ly,
so when you just do a \revert, you cannot restore the former
behavior - so the (workaround) solution to 1459 would be to copy
the corresponding lines in ly/engraver-init.ly (the stuff coping with
Stem '...).

But I think it would be more consistent to allow the stem, flag and beam
engravers
to be switched off entirely without causing errors, and the slurs take
care of the
note heads only when there are no beams, flags and stems. But that's way too
huge for me to get done.

HTH,

Marc

> http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=1459
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> lilypond-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel



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Re: Issue 1459 [was: Re: [tablatures] snippet "Slides in tablature", NR 2.4.1]

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Re: Issue 1459 [was: Re: [tablatures] snippet "Slides in tablature", NR 2.4.1]

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